Legislature(2003 - 2004)
03/02/2004 10:24 AM House EDT
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 512-HYDROGEN ENERGY RESEARCH PROGRAM Number 0080 CHAIR HEINZE announced that the first order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 512, "An Act establishing the Hydrogen Energy Partnership in the Department of Community and Economic Development; requiring the commissioner of community and economic development to seek public and private funding for the partnership; providing for the contingent repeal of an effective date; and providing for an effective date." CHAIR HEINZE brought attention to the two fiscal notes: one [for $71,000] from the Department of Community & Economic Development (DCED) and a zero fiscal note from the university. Number 0104 REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD, sponsor, reported that Governor Schwarzenegger of California has said he'll establish a network of outlets for hydrogen across California such that no place is more than 20 miles from an outlet. Representative Crawford remarked that Alaska has a greater potential than almost any other place in the world for hydrogen, and should get in the forefront. Saying there's money available through federal and private grants, he highlighted the need to set up an entity which can shepherd that money and get it to the scientists so the actual potential can be known. He deferred to Mr. Hardenbrook to provide details. Number 0195 JAY HARDENBROOK, Staff to Representative Harry Crawford, Alaska State Legislature, explained: Hydrogen doesn't occur naturally on earth in a pure form. We have to extract it from something else. And that does take some energy, although, in fact, currently, with extracting it from natural gas, it is more efficient as a fuel source than producing gasoline from crude oil. ... It actually is more efficient than what we're currently using to power our cars. It's not actually an energy source, but rather a means of retaining energy. ... Specifically, when we use electrolysis to extract hydrogen from water, we're just containing the energy that we've taken from another source. And that way, we can store it in hydrogen until we get it to wherever it needs to be used - currently, they're talking about automobiles, as well as fuel cells for buildings. But it can also be extracted from natural gas, as I said, crude oil, or coal. And as most of us know, we have twice ... the coal reserves of ... the rest of the United States put together. Other hydrogen partnerships and commissions: Hawaii has one, specifically for their geothermal resources, which is one of the really promising aspects here in the state of Alaska. In the Midwest, they've been analyzing wind potential - huge wind ... farms in the Midwest, with hydrogen being shipped all over the U.S. And, of course, ... California currently has Governor Schwarzenegger on board with establishing ... infrastructure for automobiles. Number 0326 MR. HARDENBROOK continued: President Bush in 2003 put $1.2 billion into the federal budget for different hydrogen-research projects, and that money currently is going to the places that have commissions set up to ... take on those projects. The potential benefits of the market, the grants to the state, and the possibility ... of another valuable resource being shipped from Alaska far outweigh the one-time costs that are associated with this bill. Currently, DCED has a fiscal note of - one time - $71,000. What Hawaii has taken in, just in grants in one year, dwarfs that by four times. So the potential far outweighs the small initial cost, and ... from what I understand from DCED, that is just the cost of paying one grant writer for one year to get them started, and after that the grants would pay for all other costs. Number 0407 CHAIR HEINZE asked when hydrogen cars likely will be available. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD answered: The future's right now. They have the cars that are able to run. And what I was told at the NCSL [National Conference of State Legislatures] last year was ... they would start selling those cars as soon as there was ... a distribution system and a supply for hydrogen. ... It's right now; it's as soon as we can get a distribution and supply of hydrogen available, there will be hydrogen cars marketed. MR. HARDENBROOK added, "I understand that there is a prototype right now to convert current gasoline automobiles into hydrogen vehicles, and that should be on the market in the next two years." In response to a further question, he said, "Hydrogen can be used in your standard internal-combustion engine right now. All you need is a pressurized fuel tank that can take in enough hydrogen to power the vehicle." Number 0519 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING asked whether there had been review of the successes in the other states and whether the commission in Hawaii has yielded benefits, for example. MR. HARDENBROOK replied that California is setting up the grid for actually supplying the vehicles. Hawaii is still in the "theoretical stage of everything" and currently is using geothermal to power its power grid, to a certain extent, but hasn't set up the large-scale electrolysis yet; it has established the grant-writing system and the institute, and scientists are working on it right now. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING remarked that this is a good piece of legislation, but expressed some reservations about the public- funding aspect. He said he appreciates that the sponsor made reference to seeking private sources, and noted that page 3 talks about seeking private industry investment and tax incentives, for example. Mentioning the Wright brothers, flight technology, and private money which funded that success at the beginning of the 20th century, he noted that someone else had been funded by some government money then [and wasn't as successful]. Number 0674 CHAIR HEINZE brought attention to handouts in the committee packet, noting that Chugach Electric Association operates [one of the world's largest fuel cell projects] in Anchorage. She called upon Mr. Griffith. Number 0695 JOE GRIFFITH, Chief Executive Office (CEO), Chugach Electric Association, said he applauds the committee for taking this up and that it's the kind of forward-looking view needed in the state. He remarked, "Heaven knows, we're experts in the energy business; we know how to do it and how to make it work. And I certainly look forward to participation in the project that Representative Crawford has brought forward here." He said $71,000 [the one-time amount in DCED's fiscal note] isn't a lot. MR. GRIFFITH said he understands Representative Kohring's view that it is better to have private industry undertaking these things, but reminded the committee that "most of us are public entities in the energy business on this side of it, particularly the electrolysis side, and we would need ... special tools and help from the state in order to put something like this together." He continued: There will be big front-end costs, and ... it behooves us to get out and find those grants that are out there and perhaps craft partnerships that would make this a viable industry in our state. It is the fuel of the future; there's no doubt about it. And we in Alaska ought to get aboard the process - the sooner, the better. We can deal with the front-end costs and the fact that there's no transportation system and we would have to create one ... to be able to market the product. But we have some of the finest wind resources here in several areas of the state to make that hydrogen ... out of water, in essence. Maybe we could sell both the resulting oxygen and the hydrogen. But it's clearly going to be the fuel of the future. We have fuel cells that today run on it, very high efficiencies. As someone said, ... there are already convention internal-combustion engines that can burn hydrogen. There are some technical difficulties in that, as well, but we know how to handle them as well. MR. GRIFFITH went on to say this is a good bill, the kind of thing the state should do to ensure the tools are available for the private sector, and he believes the periodic report to [the legislature] makes a lot of sense. He concluded, "Let's get on with it." Number 0917 CHAIR HEINZE returned attention to the handouts on fuel cells that [Chugach Electric Association] operates at the U.S. Postal Service facility. She asked whether it's called "steam reforming." MR. GRIFFITH affirmed that, saying, "That's how you start the process." In further response, he explained that the CH4 molecule is converted to its basic components: carbon monoxide, and some water because of the amount of steam put in it, and hydrogen. Then the hydrogen is put through another process that strips off an electron and makes electrical energy; a certain amount of heat is also created in the process. He said the U.S. Postal Service facility uses both the heat and the electricity. Number 0975 CHAIR HEINZE asked whether, through this process, the hydrogen atoms are taken from the fuel (indisc.) and the oxygen atoms are taken from the air, and this produces electricity and water. MR. GRIFFITH answered that the output is electricity; a little bit of steam; and some carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide in small amounts, which he indicated comes from the carbon atom in the CH4 molecule, which is the natural gas that has to be part of the reaction. In further response, he said it's very clean; any fuel cell when it operates is virtually silent, and a wisp of steam comes out of the vents that is the total emission. He added, "Anytime you're using hydrogen as a fuel, it's very clean; the byproduct is water." Number 1047 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING moved to report HB 512 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. CHAIR HEINZE announced that HB 512 was reported from the House Special Committee on Economic Development, International Trade and Tourism.
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